God Talk: Debates and Discussions with Believers
These are actual conversations that have taken place between religious believers and myself, through forums, email, dialogue, etc. This discussion has been kept in its original format, with spelling and grammatical errors in tact.
Random Nonsense Preaching for Jesus
Christian: We all know there is plenty of non biblical proof of Jesus. Even as much to prove beyond a doubt by laws of the court. Read testemony of the evangelists and let go of that argument because it is weak at best. All old testement text screams Jesus unless of course you are blind to see and deaf to hear and slow to learn!
Rebuttal: This is wrong on so many levels. We have no contemporary non-biblical "proof" of Jesus, and what we do have is often suspected of interpolation, only comments on the Christian sect (not Jesus specifically), and so forth. The Old Testament screams Jesus to you because you have a predisposition to see Jesus in everything, as a Christian. It's ironic that Christians say this crap so much, considering that Jews have known their scriptures far better and have not come to Jesus en mass.
Christian: One of the many things Calvary did was to free the chains of the law of the old testement and it's harsh punishments, the law is written not on stone now but on the hearts of men, by accepting Christ we accept him as a perfect sacrifice to blot out our transgressions. Glory to God!!
Rebuttal: Isn't that a puzzling perspective, given that Jesus said the law would remain until "heaven and earth disappear" and instructed his followers to keep "even the least of the commandments" (Matthew 5:17-19)? Glory to the god of confusion, who can't seem to make up his mind!
Christian: Those who like yourselve do not accept will be held unto judgement on the return of my Lord and savior, and if you do not repent you WILL be cast alive into the lake of fire! REPENT I PRAY FOR YOU!
Rebuttal: Do you fear punishment for rejecting Islam? For rejecting Judaism? The pagan faiths of old? No? Well, perhaps you understand how little your insipid preaching means to me. In my eyes, your god is as much a lie as the lake of fire.
Christian: If you want to know why these other religions reject Christ read genesis very carfully espcially the story involving Joseph; and the prophecy frm Jacob of the 12 tribes. I don't even need the new testement to know Jesus is the Christ.
Rebuttal: Taking a religion's word about non-believers is never a good idea. Again, you probably don't care that Islam says you may go to hell for rejecting Muhammad, or that Judaism says you'll be punished for following a false prophet, so why should I trust Christianity's word about non-Christians? You have amazingly absurd double standards.
Christian: Genesis 3:15, Psalm 40:7-17, numerous in Isaiah, Zechariah 3:7-10 I could keep going but I will only say this JESUS is the Christ the redeemer from everlasting to everlasting. Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a wayin the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.
Rebuttal: What good do you think your preaching to me is doing? Do you think these are magical words, like wiccan spells, that can change the minds of unbelievers if you just regurgitate them? I've heard all this garbage before and I even used to believe it. But all you're doing now is wasting your breath.
Christian: Not a spell my friend just genuine fear for non-believers. Just as my savior loved sinners and those tricked by Satan so do I. I just want to help you find the love you so despratly need. The other prophesies I wrote in my prior comments look em up. The truth is freedom.
Rebuttal: I can assure you that I feel no fear of your god or his threats. Speaking of threats, you want to help me find the love of a deity who threatens to punish people with eternal and unimaginable suffering if they don't love him back? The same deity who allegedly drowned most of humanity in a flood, destroyed entire cities, and sent nation after nation to enslave and oppress his people, all because of his own petty idea to put a forbidden tree in the garden? Sorry, but I see absolutely no freedom or truth in that.
Christian: Also genesis chapter 5 take all those name of ppl and look up the meanings, in Hebrew and you will see another fingerprint of the holy ghost prophesing my savior. I will continue my prayers for you, and anyone Satan has tricked. The greatest is love.
Rebuttal: Wait a minute - so people's names in a religious text, which espouse religious ideas... you're saying that's evidence of "the holy ghost" prophesying Jesus? It couldn't just be that the authors of the bible chose specific names or used names already around from a cult of Yahweh? You see how simple an explanation there is that is not miraculous, but you prefer the fanciful to the reasonable, don't you? You'll have to keep praying for me if you expect me to believe such moronic bullshit.
Christian: My God is love but if you turn from him you then chose Satan. And the biggest trick he pulled is having ppl believe he does not exist. God does not chose you fate you do. Even if you don't believe hell is real and you will go. But since Jesus tought that the commantments and prophets were LOVE, I will continue to pray for you Muhammad and all other sinners and blaspemers!
Rebuttal: You haven't answered me about the claims of other religions, and that's probably because you haven't thought about them. You accepted Christianity and then decided everything else is blasphemy. The truth is not up to personal opinion or feelings though. You have no good reason for believing in Jesus anymore than for believing in Muhammad.
Your god is love, but he'll cast you into a lake of fire for all eternity if you don't love him back? Haha, no your god is jealousy and hatred.
Christian: Did you know mathematicaly for Jesus to fulfill eight of the prophecies would be ten to the seventeenth power. He fulfilled three hundred. The odds of that. Also if you are an atheist why not use science or math because arguing scripture won't work for you.
Rebuttal: In Isaiah 11:12, it says the messiah will unite all Jews to return to Israel. Ezekiel 37:27-28 states that the messiah will build a third temple in Jerusalem. Isaiah 2:4 indicates that during the Messianic Era, no nations will go to war, nor will they even train for it. Isaiah 11:9 tells us that everyone will know God during the messiah's reign, "as the waters cover the sea". These are only a few examples of how Christ didn't quite fit the messiah mould.
You think atheists have to use science and math to debunk religion (how would you use math to do this)? Are you that stupid? I can use scripture as much as I want, so long as I support my reasoning, and it appears pretty obvious that I know how to do that FAR better than you do.
Christian: Lol, you err this speaks of the kingdom age. The Jews who rejected Christ will embrace him. Read things in their entirty it will help you understand.
Rebuttal: You tell me to read things in their entirety - well, where is this kingdom age in the Old Testament? There is NO mention of the messiah ever having to make two trips to earth to complete his mission, rather the Tanakh tells that the kingdom age would begin with the first (and only) arrival of the messiah. You're the one erring, so perhaps you should read things in their entirety instead of giving advice you don't follow yourself.
Christian: I looked into a lot of other religions, beleifs and doctrines I studied extensivly of the old testement because like you I don't want to be fooled. And so I chose the God who tells the begining from the end. Not just about Christ but i mean look at all the other fulfilled prophecies; Daniel for instance. My savior is the same yesterday today and forever.
Rebuttal: Your savior contradicted himself many times, actually. He warned that anyone to say "you fool" would be in danger of hellfire (Matthew 5:22) and then proceeded to call the Pharisees fools (Matt. 23:17)! Jesus claimed to fulfill the law (Matthew 5:17), but taught against the Sabbath law (Matt. 12:1-8), the food law (Mark 7:18-19), and dishonored his mother in Matthew 12:46-50. Yeah, he sure is the same: one big mess of nonsense! Lol.
Your terrible understanding of Judaism makes me doubt your investigation into other faiths. As for the book of Daniel, it was probably written after the prophecies. No manuscript of it has been found to date before the late 2nd century BC, it did not make it into the ketuvim/prophets, which was closed by 200 BC, and the mix of Hebrew and Aramaic language reflects the 2nd century BC time period too.
Christian: The comandments are boiled down to two things 1- love God first, 2- love your neigbour as yourself. Now if you look at your out of context examples you can figure it put. Come on you know more than me remember, and you can not see it. Lol. Your in my prayers. Love covers a multitude of sins.
Rebuttal: Since I apparently do know more than you, let me explain. Those are the essence of the law, but that doesn't mean each law can be disregarded. If that were the case, why was the man in Numbers 15 stoned to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath? Because part of loving God is keeping his commands (1 John 5:2). Additionally, why did Jesus tell the rich man not to murder, commit adultery, and so forth, instead of just "love God and love your neighbor" (Mark 10:19)?
Christian: Lol, you think so if you knew more than you think you know, you would not be fooled and would be filled with the holy ghost. 300 prophecies filled by Christ; what a coeincedence!
Rebuttal: No, it's not a coincidence, because there are not 300 prophecies fulfilled by Christ. Many of the "prophecies" on those lists aren't even prophecies! Christians like to flip through the Old Testament, find whatever resembles Jesus and label it a prophecy, and they expose their own terribly poor understanding of Hebrew scripture in doing that.
Because I know the bible, I don't believe it and thus I am not fooled by primitive superstition.
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